Enjoy the cartoons. They have caused riots all over the world. Any Comments / Gaalis to the muslims are welcome.

Le,’s have a more realistic view of Islam, here. The Islam we see today is very violent and intolerant towards other beliefs and cultures. People criticize Mohammad because he represents the chaos, intolerance and violence that we see today, at least part of it. I am not against the teachings, most of it but there are phrases in Koran that encourages to kill "kafirs" who are non-believers or people of other beliefs.

Mohammad was a very good business man; he married an aged rich widow and used his wisdom to expand his business. Mohammad is a public figure and why cannot people learn to accept criticism of a public figure is beyond imagination. Most problem in the world today exists because of intolerance towards other faiths/beliefs or not being able to take criticism on your own belief.. When will people learn??

''Those cartoons are satire to the polluted form of Isalm. If Muhammed were alive today, he would have laughed to those cartoonists instead of protesting against them. Those, who are protesting, are his believers not his followers. It is easy to be a believer and termendiously difficult to be a follower.

I have always been against the blind faith. We have brain, mind, to think, to analyze... we should utilize it.

If someone humiliate our revered father, of course we should oppose it. But oppose such a way that the opponent bow down out of shame. Don't protest such a way that the opponents laugh at you. You are the one who can give dignity to your elders. It's your act which will give honor to your ancesters. You should win your opponents by qualities not by abuses and anger. Don't try to pull your opponent from the height, rather climb higher and make him low. This is not only application to Muslims but everybody.''

Just couldn't resist to appreciate these sweet paras of wisdom. Kudos Vishontarjee. This is what the mankind should learn to help making a better world.

On the topic itself, yes the muslim religion has been the victim of christian crusade in the past. The legacy of the Persian empire has been destroyed. Palestinians have suffered humiliation since the days of David and Goliath. Muslim extremism is the by-product of past exploitations of the muslim civilization.

Without the publication of the cartoons, the muslims wouldn't have started the latest bloody protests throughout the world. Althought I resisted an extreme reprobation of journalism in the guise of showering sympathy to muslims up in this thread, I for myself oppose such provocative and unethical publications. I have always been sympathetic to the muslim sufferings and have posted such comments in sajha to be criticized as a terrorist sympathizer later.

The origin and republication of those cartoons at a time, when the muslim world is feeling the heat of isolation and hatred, is extremely insensible and deplorable. At the same time, look how the muslim world reacted? Does the original version of Quran teaches it's disciples for bloody retaliation every time when the muslims feel offended? I don't think so. If it does, Quran is wrong and it needs to be rewritten. If it doesn't, the misinterpretation of Quran is causing mayhem.

The terrorists and extremists have exploited the past sufferings of muslims to use them as a mean of promoting and propagating terrorism in the world. They have misinterpreted the verses of Quran, many new versions of the holy book instigates people for bloody retaliation in the name of god. This is where the majority of the muslims have failed to detach themselves from the source of extremism. Many Madrassahs are teaching hatred of jews and non-muslims. Arab kids are fed with anti-jewish rhetorics at a very early age. Suicide bombing has been attributed to martyrdom. And the muslim world has not done enough on its behalf to discourage extremism.

Yes, the Palestinians deserve a separate independent state. True that most of the Arab oil resources are in the hand of westerners, they need a fairer share. They deserve a much better treatment. BUT condoning bloody retaliation and fanatical counter measures will NOT support the muslim cause. Publication of Mohammad's cartoons was deplorable but bloody demonstrations and sabotage of western diplomatic missions in the name of protest is far from a rational reaction. Muslims must reform themselves if they don't want to be dubbed as the source of hatred and extremism, while the non-muslim world should listen to their plight and help for their rights too. If the clash of civilizations is to be avoided: muslims must learn to respect other religions, they must avoid bloodshed between themselves (Shia and Sunni) and against non-muslims, embrace peaceful means to defend their cause and adopt positive scientific and modern reformations (including birth control) within their religion.

Denmark government has been always kind to Nepal through its donation. I don't remember any Saudi or Islamic country being kind to Nepal so being a nepali here is my support to denmark.

Here is a article that was published on one European paper-

A Moment of Truth

A new non-political international movement is rising.

4000 terror attacks after 9/11, the world was still slumbering. But 12 innocent satirical drawings in a Danish newspaper, the kind of cartoons printed daily by the thousands in newspapers all over the world, have changed the geopolitical situation.

Suddenly, a new understanding is emerging across political differences.

In recent years, the world crisis between Islam and the non-Muslim world has been discussed in thousands of books, countless television debates and millions of articles across the globe. It did nothing but divide us. Even former western allies were divided, and a wave of anti-Americanism has swept even the free western societies.

Now ridiculous circumstances have changed all that. A sense of humour has changed what all the debating could not.

For 1400 years, Islam has waged war on all surrounding non-Muslim civilizations. During the course of history, Christianity was reformed, Europe colonized the world and set it free again, dictators lived, reigned and died, and totalitarian regimes emerged and vanished.

But Islam stayed, unreformed. And today, it imprisons more than 1 billion people, moderate and radical souls alike, in a huge gap of difference to the rest of us. Across political divides, across national boundaries, across various degrees of freedom, across race, people or religion, black or white, rich or poor; it stands out as our opposite. Only Muslim reformists seek to lessen the gap. And their voices are quickly silenced.

In modern times, waves of immigrants from Muslim countries have entered Europe. All European countries have been subject to islamization; the process of slowly incorporating Islamic values and Muslim customs into our way of life. Far East countries like India, Thailand, Indonesia and China are experiencing the Muslim Jihad. Israel lives with it. America feels it. Africa suffers from it, and is too weak from disease and poverty to resist.

It is suddenly coming to our attention that Islam is not, cannot, and will not be integrated or assimilated to the values of freedom and democracy. Islam is not only a religion; it is a totalitarian and expansionistic political ideology.

It is now a moment of truth. The current events unfolding all over the world are opening our eyes. 12 cartoons have touched the soul of the free societies: The right to speak freely without fear.

The drawings did not cause this. But they catalyzed a world conflict dormant since the birth of Muhammed.

Now we know what his face looks like. And we are still in majority on this earth to stand up to it.

The current events will eventually lead to either a 3rd world war or finally some sort of Islamic self-realization that has been 1400 years in the making.

And here is what one American citizen has to say:

Dear muslims,

If you do not like my country, please leave.
If you do not like the way our women dress, please leave.
If you do not like our separation of politics and religion, please leave.
If you support violent responses to criticism of Islam, please leave.
If you support terrorism in any way, shape or form, please leave.
If you cannot accept satirical cartoons in our newspapers, please leave.
If you do not support democracy or the freedom of speech, please leave my country.

Asking me whether I regret publishing the cartoons is like asking a rape victim if she regrets wearing a short skirt Friday night at the discotheque.

Flemming Rose, Jyllands-Posten's culture editor

@8-)

>>>Mohammad was a very good business man; he married an aged rich widow and used his wisdom to expand his business. Mohammad is a public figure and why cannot people learn to accept criticism of a public figure is beyond imagination. Most problem in the world today exists because of intolerance towards other faiths/beliefs or not being able to take criticism on your own belief.. When will people learn??

What do you know about mohammad? Have you ever read quaran? have you ever thought why saudi firefighters pushed girls coming out of a ablaze building just because thier burqa burnt and their face was exposed? Have you ever thought why 29% hindu in pakistan in 1945 are now less than 1%? Have you ever thought why death of 3000 people in WTC was a reason to distribute sweets among millions of muslims?

No it is not because muslims are misunderstood. It is also not because as person muslims are bad. It is because of mohhammad... it is because of his book quaran... just like a religious buddhist has to shave his head and wear orange dress, muslims have to kill or convert non-muslims...

Millions of people died in china but still followers of mao said communism was best ideology... even today ask any communist he will tell you that communism failed in russia and china because it was not "implemented correctly"... same is the case with islam... a muslim always feels all his problems are because of infidels... he never thinks that there might be something wrong with islam or muhhammad...

Frankly the mohhammad you are talking about is figment of your imagination... real muhhammad was very much like depicted in cartoons...

Even today there are thousands of people in mental hospitals across the world who think god is giving them message to spread to world... perhaps if jesus or mohhammad was born in this age they would have been correctly diagnosed and kept in mental hospital and millions of lives could have been saved... perhaps we would have made small colonies on mars by now...

I am lucky that I was born in nepal... I could leave islam and still alive... i would have been killed for saying whatever I feel is truth if I were born in any islamic country... please get rid of your imagination of islam and help muslims realize that they are doing no service to allah by serving military dictator muhhammad...

Just to clear up facts...
1. muhhammad said a person can marry 4 women... but he had 9 wives... he married ayesha (a 6-year old girl) and consummated his marrige when she way just 9 years old and muhhammad was 53... he used to play with her when she was playing with her dolls... when he died his mouth was full of saliva of ayesha and he died on her lap.

2. muhhammad ordered his army to kill 700 jews in mecca even when they had surrendered. He chose most beautiful jewess as his possession and had sex with her same day he killed all her male relatives.

3. The worst crime according to mohhammad is not killing of innocent person but praying to an idol. Apparently allah was very sad that people were praying to idols in place of him and that is why he sent mohhammad. When muslims are majority in any place then according to quaran they must destroy all idols temples etc... now can you blame taliban saying they misunderstood islam?

4. Those who die in service of allah(read suicide bombing etc) recieve special place in heaven with 72 beautiful virgins.... converting a person to islam (by threat or persuation) has much more reward than praying full life or going to haj.

5. only permitted motive for befriending a non-muslim is probability that he/she may convert to islam someday.


And so on... I got sick when I read quaran and hadiths myself.

yusuf,

Good ones. Lets hear from Vishnottar.

I deplore any extremism and sensless violence. I belive violence brews more violence. I think the cartoons were very insensitive act to do depending upon the fragile situation beween middleeast and other islamic nations and west.

West has not been fair to east and middle east or even in Africa. Their interest in oil in middle east and diamonds in Africa has driven people into extremism in some sort I believe. De Beers had a lot to do in the civil war of Sierre Leonne.

ALso how can we subject innocents for the crime that they have not commited? IS not a holocust enough? I mean punish the culprits but single innocent soul should not be subject to any hate or crime.

First of all my knowledge about any religion is very limited. Thats why I like to hear from knowlegible people like Yusuf and Vishnottar.

Posted on 02-11-06 12:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Someone said he married a six year old to rescue her and there you are coming here and saying he did a great job. what kind of sick bastard that man was to do that in the first place and what kind of person you are to back that statement without any reasoning? [sic] common people use common sense.
>>>>>>>>
Now that is stupid. I never backed Islam. I did,however emplasis on empathy and tried to bring into attention the different social values that could have existed hundreds of years ago , and according to them maybe, yes maybe, back then it wasn't as bad as you project it with your feet on today's value.
Cartoons that would cause death of real people is not necessary.

>>>>Now that is stupid. I never backed Islam. I did,however emplasis on empathy and tried to bring into attention the different social values that could have existed hundreds of years ago , and according to them maybe, yes maybe, back then it wasn't as bad as you project it with your feet on today's value.
Cartoons that would cause death of real people is not necessary. >>>

i'm not a psychic or a mind-reader. there is no way i could figure out what you "meant" to say.

if you say michael jackson did a good thing butt-fking a 8 year old since he was taking care of his family, i have absolutely nothing to say. also i have nothing to say when you see the whole world stupid if they don't agree to you and your muslim appeasing, pacifist agenda.

Yusuf Alam, you are the great! I solute you for your analytical and thought provoking interpretation of Kuran and hagart. I personally think that like you, most of the Muslims need to realize the bad teaching of Muhammad and his fanatic followers. There are very fundamental plain bad teachings of Muhammad which are blindly followed by his followers instead of simply ignoring them. Hats off to you Yusuf!

the only thing i have to say is that i donot have any thing positive to say about the expremists....i have no sympathy for them.....

the day the bohemian buddha was destroyed on the name of f@#king Dharma, that was it.............

only thing i have to say is extremists you can do whatever you want...if i wish i f@#king pray and belive in an idol and f@#k you

sorry its Bamiyan buddha....

hyaaa,, not only you're not a physic ,you're not a good reader also.
let me make it simple for you.
a) I do not agree with most muslim propoganda. However, the cartoons were not necessary.
b)What " beflowring" meant in hundreads of years ago muslim society maybe different that what it is meant today.maybe back then it meant just looking the girl's face without a cover. it's not wise to jump and judge without knowing the facts. I have not done research , so i can't say it is true. But , i'm just trying to bring up the possibilites.


God has given us brains..think logically, don't blame because everyone is blaming. think critically. Respect others opinions.

Anyone can worship anyone they wish; it is the followers or believers alike. There is not much difference between followers and believers. Believers become followers and vice versa. The present must be judged with the past as it is heavily or solely relies on it.

Youuf,
You have agreed to everything I have said with a different tone :-)

Have I read Kuran? Yes I did many years ago and I have an idea what it is about ;-)

The present extremist Muslims cannot be excluded from their original faith.

Dear Friends, thank you so much for your nice words. I am honored and obliged.

I and one of my best friends talks for hours to go to Nepal and serve the country selflessly. He often asks me

"Who will understand us?"

I answer him, " A true voice is louder than a croud".

This thread is one of the examples. There are people who can comperhand the truth. I am not important, important is the truth. I salute you and your wisdom. I am thrilled with happiness not because you praised me but because you comperhanded the truth.

There was similar incident at the time of Buddha. When Buddha got enlighened he made up his mind to go to Himalaya and not to share his knowledge to people. Do you know why? Because he thought no one will understand his teaching. But, that wasn't true, there were hundreds of thousands of people who could comperhand what he said. Millions and millions people comperhaned his teaching in centuries.

Truth is the most powerful weapon, whoever comperhands it, is the wise and superior.

Here are the words of Bodhisattava.

एकोब श्रेयो पुरूषो सप्रज्ञा, ते भाषीतस्स्य बिजानाति अर्थं।
बोधिसत्ब

एउटा बुद्दिबान जस्ले कुराको अर्थ अन्तस्करणबाट बुझ्छ त्यहि श्रेष्ठ हो।

जानाति‍‍ - जान्नु (to know ) बिजानाति -अन्तस्करणबाट जान्नु - भित्रिमनबाट बुझ्नु (to comperhend)

To know, to understand, is not enough. Bodhisattava is giving importance to understand from inner core of the mind.

From your replies I can definitely say that the true words touched your heart. You comperhended the truth, you are wise and you are the superior. Please don't take this as a personal praise of obligation. This is the expression of my happiness for finding people like you.

I have nothing against to those dearest friends who think differently. I appreciate their information. As soon as time permits write more about Muhammed and Islam.

vishontar,

i always gave benifit of the doubt to islam and christianity. but after completing reading the bible and the quran,(bible book quran from online sources) i have come to conclusion that if thois is what religion is supposed to be i would rather be atheist.

here is what i think , if we were able to prove that god, allah, shiva whatever doesnot exist what will be different, nothing! we will go about our daily business as usual. i donot think people will change much. in fact this world would be much better off if we destroy all forms of institutionalized and organized religions.

we are humans because of our knowledge. knowledge is science (is there anything that is not a product of science?) if there is god , god wants us to know more and use our brains not follow books written by some psychos.

~Birbhadra

Vishontar,
Please do not make this argument about terror and torture to comprehend Mohammad or compare Mohammad with other religious figures or make this thread to show how much you know about religion.

Discussion is about torture and killing that is happening, TODAY. When you search the root of the problems that exist in Muslim belief today where will you end up?

I can understand your compassion but please do not try to hide or evade the current problems with the discussion of spirituality!!

>>Truth is the most powerful weapon, whoever comperhands it, is the wise and superior
Here you are refusing to accept the problem that exists; are you a wise one or pretending to be one ;-)

In jest,
8-)

@8-)


>>>Please do not make this argument about terror and torture to comprehend Mohammad or compare Mohammad with other religious figures

I agree with you here. Yes buddha,krishna,and jesus are all different and so is their teaching similarly mohhammad is different too. You may be insulting buddhists by comparing muhhammad with buddha... but offcourse you are offending muslims more because for them muhammad is a guy whose every word is to be taken without any question... he is not comparable to any other guy including buddha...

May be I hate him because he has prescribed death for infidels like me.

@Vishowontar....
What are you talking about? Where did mohhammad say anything about sprituality? according to him all muslims will go to heaven WITH BODY on judgement day... he has never talked about soul etc.

The main theme of quaran is as follows.
1. Allaha is very sad because he created human beings for praying to him and sing praises , thanks for him. But human being chose to ignore him and started praying to man made things such as idols.
2. Life here is test. The person who respects allah(that means follow muhhammads book as the book is supposedly from allah) will get rewards... those who disrespect allah by following any other book or worst praying to idol will burn in hell for ever... for them allah is most cruel and for belivers he is merciful.
3. If you kill unbeliver chanting allah's name then you do not kill him, he is killed by allah i.e blame is not on you only rewards are. That's why when extremists kill infidels they shout allah u akbar (allah is great).
4. According to muhhammad there is a satan who is trying to make people deviate from the true faith. When two unmarried people of opposite sex meet then there is always the third creature called jinn who is trying to put sexual i.e bad ideas in both.
5. When you sleep in night satan enters into your nose to pollute your dreams. So before prayer every muslim has to wash inside his nose with water.
6. music, poetry etc are banned in islam because you should not think anything else other than greatness of allah who is so insecure of himself that he wants to put 4/5 th of world population in hell.

There is no sprituality in islam. Sprituality is there in sufism(tawassuf) which is copy paste of ideas from traditional buddhism and hinduism. But you should remember that sufis are killed on daily basis in any muslim country because they are trying to put man made ideas into god made religion.

Any way I will be glad to hear about sprituality in islam if you come across. One thing that might be considered good about islam is unity and discipline(like 5 prayers every day)... but again the discipline is enforced by force most of the time. For example in saudi arabia all shops etc are closed briefly at time of azan. If you are muslim and not praying during azan then you might be punished heavily.

Thanks Yusuf! keep rolling, This is getting interesting.